Dr. Preston Jones: Patricia Edwards, thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate it.
How many years did you work at Dover Air Base?
Patricia Edwards: 48 years.
Jones: So you started in what year?
Edwards: I started literally inside of 1972. I was there in 1971, but I started in 1972.
Jones: And then you retired in 2019?
Edwards: Yes. I retired in 2019 from the Airman and Family Readiness Center
Jones: And so you were at Dover through a number of significant events, a crisis. Dover, that’s the base where the remains of fallen service members returned back to the states?
Edwards: Yes. At present Dover Air Force Base is the only base that receives bodies of the fallen. Mr. Carson, who I had the pleasure of working with for a number of years—the mortuary is literally named after him. And whether it was military or whether it was civilian, his words would be that nobody should be received at Dover Air Force Base mortuary without honor, dignity and respect.
Jones: Let’s start there because I think most people will have in their minds what we see on the news; for example, from the Iraq conflict and from Afghanistan, we saw images. I mean, I have in my mind images of President Bush, President Bush Jr., President Obama, and President Trump. When the remains are returned, we can see that it’s a somber, serious thing as somebody who’s actually on the base. What was the atmosphere like when caskets from fallen service members returned to Dover?
Edwards: It gives an aura of responding to a situation that we know nationwide would be watching the Dover Air Force Base. But more than that, it was heartfelt to say that the team of Dover Air Force Base had to unite as one. There are so many various entities and facilities on the base that literally we have to come together as a united team in order to process and to make everything for that fallen member or for anybody that is given the honor and dignity and respect.
Jones: Let’s go back to November, 1978. It’s a ways back there, but you’d been on the base for a few years or rather, for several years by that point. You were on the base through the Gulf War, through Iraq, of course Afghanistan is still going, but you saw what happened with—
Edwards: Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Operation Freedom—I can go on.
Jones: You’ve seen a lot of history unfold. And of course one of the major American stories, sort of post-Vietnam American stories, is what happened in Guyana in November 1978. And just as we get into this and talk about your involvement in the US military’s response to what happened at Jonestown in Guyana, is that the single biggest event that Dover has had to deal with? We’re talking about a little bit more than 900 bodies in a short amount of time.
Edwards: Going back and looking at all the histories, yes.
Jones: And so this came pretty early in your career. Let’s go back to the news. I mean, I was a kid myself. I remember coming home from junior high school and seeing on the news some story that I didn’t understand. All I understood was that a lot of people had drunk what was called Kool-Aid and had passed away—mass suicide. And the numbers kept going up and up, but I was a kid and I didn’t really understand it. I had never heard of Peoples Temple before and had never heard of Jim Jones before. Never heard of Guyana before.
Had you ever heard of Peoples Temple before?
Edwards: No. I did not know of any of the history of that event until it literally happened.
Jones: So what is your first memory then? Unlike everyone I knew. Jonestown is a news story. For you, it actually becomes part of your daily life for some time. Here we are decades later still talking about it, so it becomes part of you; you actually participate in this historical story.
What is your very first memory of Peoples Temple and Jonestown coming into your consciousness? Was it a phone call? Was it somebody saying, “hey, we’ve got something big”? What is the first thing you remember about that?
Edwards: The first thing that always happens is security. The entry and exit to the base are secure. I could recall that just going into work we were almost in a lockdown capacity and you definitely had to have your security identifier. In this instance, they did not want to have speculators just wanting to come into the gate to just see what was going on. So the base was in a real secure lockdown situation. All of the individuals who had ID cards, you have to respect the right of saying this is the environment that I work in and this is the security that I know that needs to be taken.
Jones: Did you show up at work one day and just notice that security was a lot tighter and then find out after work?
Edwards: No. They always notify you. They have a means of notifying everyone that we’re on this kind of security measure. You have to have your ID card. You have to be able to verify coming in and out. It’s like a lockdown situation.
Jones: When you received that notification—be sure to have off everything you need, because security’s going to be a lot tighter—did they tell you why?
Edwards: On the norm, when we are notified, they usually say that security is on a high end. They will then give us a briefing and normally the briefings are done and like a command is called. So that this way everybody is given an overview of what’s going to come. They have what we would call a Commander’s Call, and they usually have it in our base theater.
Everyone is scheduled. It’s not like you are just going to hear from your supervisor. No, you are scheduled to go to your Commander’s Call so that you can be briefed on what is going on.
Jones: And you remember that happening where you and others were brought in and briefed?
Edwards: Oh, yes. With any situation, we are briefed.
Jones: So you hear for the first time that some American group associated mainly with San Francisco was down in Guyana, and that there had been this mass event then referred to as a mass suicide. Nowadays people say murder suicide. What was your particular job at that time?
Edwards: I had to recruit extra civilian help. Being in Human Resources, we had the task of having to take our resources and work as expeditiously as we possibly could to get people on board that were needed at the mortuary.
Jones: What kind of skills did you need? What sort of people with specialties did you need?
Edwards: The array of skills would’ve been from administrative all the way down to the forensic type of scenario of recruitment, sort of forensic pathologists. When I say administrative, they needed individuals to be like secretarial support to be able to assist with taking up all those records and all the documents that had to be right.
We also had to make sure that all of those individuals were securely, I would have to say, informed on the medical aspect of the safety of things, because in the process of bringing on people, they have to go through rigorous forms and information that they have to know before they can start employment.
They had to go through the medical aspect of it. They had to go to the administrative part of it. And then they, of course, as they went into their environment, were literally briefed over again.
Jones: Did Dover have the capacity to hold all of the caskets that came in, or did you have to contract with local mortuaries?
Edwards: They did. They contracted with all the local mortuaries. And I know that just off the top of my head—they had Torbert and they had Benny Smith and they had Pippin and they had Traders and they had several of the mortuaries that are known here in the Dover environment involved with the transportation of the moving the remains.
Jones: As these remains are coming in, how would you compare—since you’ve had so many experiences in the Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan—how would you compare the kind of spirit on Dover in response to the Jonestown remains as compared to the reception of remains from Iraq and Afghanistan?
Edwards: I believe the difference was the idea that there were children. In the wars we look at it being adults. In that instance, there were children. That made a big difference. The emotions that were shared were overwhelming.
Jones: Now, is this something that you just know because of course, you’re absolutely right. There were hundreds of children who were lost in Guyana. Is this something—let me put it this way. Veterans I’ve spoken to who actually went to Guyana as part of the military response, they refer to the body bags or the caskets and they refer to seeing—I’ll just say containers that clearly were designed for children—and they say that that’s what had a particular impact on them.
Now did you actually see that kind of thing yourself?
Edwards: I did not go into the mortuary to go back to the working facility. I did. And I was exposed to, I would have to say, the frontline: the administrators and the mortuary officer. But to be impacted by the bodies themselves? No, not so much.
What the thing is, you knew it was there because never ever did we ever have such a stench that radiated for miles because of the bodies.
Jones: What kind of toll—and this is something you hear a lot from folks who were involved in the response to Jonestown. I imagine you were busy before. I imagine that you’re very busy now in the week following Jonestown as the bodies are coming in, so you’re very busy. You’re doing your work and pulling resources together. You’re contracting with local mortuaries, but then you have this powerful stench from all of the bodies. How did that make things different? Did that make it harder to operate? What kind of psychological toll did that take?
Edwards: That psychological toll was what made the community realize that this was really a devastating situation, something that would be just unbelievable. You knew it was bodies. It was one thing for adults to be in a war, and they come back and they say, “you can smell death.” But it’s another thing to be in a community. You could ride by a place or you could come close to it and that’s death.
I would have to say that our chaplains always rose to the occasion and they were especially gifted. And when I say again, we worked as a team; places like the United Service Organization rallied there to assist as always. I mean, you think that they’re giving in the airports, and when they’re on the ground right at a station, they set up and they’re there 24 and. The one thing I feel from my heart when I speak about all of this is that a lot of individuals do not realize how much of a team the military is.
We’re 24/7. And it’s not that you had to be there 24/7. But you knew it had to be done. And I would always have to say, the one thing the military will teach you is to get it done.
Jones: How would you describe the atmosphere? So let’s say November 18th is the day it happens, but of course news doesn’t get to the states within minutes of that, so you have whatever kind of vibe there is on the base of November 18th. Then we fast forward a week, sort of just in terms of the feel of things, in terms of just kind of the psychological state of things.
How would you describe that change between November 18th—before probably hardly anyone at Dover had even heard of Jonestown to now we’re receiving all of these remains from Jonestown? How did it change the feel of the base? What was the psychological toll of this?
Edwards: Individuals as a team are leaning on other individuals. There are those individuals who really emotionally have strength, and those who emotionally—I would have to say that those are things that utilize their mind. So they’re thinkers and they’re analyzing the situation. Then there are those individuals who are thinking with their hearts, and I would have to say in that kind of situation, those that think with their hearts usually have a faster rate of breakdown than those who think with their minds.
So you’re leaning on each other for those who are heartfelt and for those who have the mental strength. Again, you are working as a team. This way, you are able to lean on each other to get you through what you see.
Jones: How long did this go on? If I remember correctly, I believe the bodies from Guyana begin to arrive at Dover within three or four days of November 18. How long were things at Dover really kind of in this intense state because there’s just so much to do? How long did that go on for?
Edwards: What I can remember, it was months. Even though they may have taken care of everything that needed to be disseminated, so far as the bodies, and as I will reiterate again, Mr. Charles C. Carson Jr. stated that no one, no family member entering this mortuary, is not going to be taken care of without honor, dignity, and respect.
Jones: You’ve referred to Mr. Carson. Were there family members of Jonestown victims who came to the base? Did you have any interactions with those folks?
Edwards: Yes, there were family members that had come. Most of them, again, with the force support. They would have been taken care of literally by our lodging, which rallies always in crisis. They’re exceptional for hospitality and I would have to say they’re rising to host numbers of individuals to stay. And then we have our food service area, I mean, the dining hall. They just rise to the occasion. And then again, the community with all of the donations and the gifts of anything that would keep the morale high—whether it was, I would say, donuts from Dunkin Donuts or coffee from Starbucks. The community always rallies to Dover Airforce Base.
Jones: So even though, in some circles, there’s maybe not a whole lot of sympathy for just remembering the time and things that were said at the time. Maybe there’s not a whole lot of sympathy at that moment necessarily for Peoples Temple. Although I think as time goes on, people realize there are a lot of kids involved and it’s a complicated story. But it sounds like you’re saying that the community recognized that these folks at Dover are really working hard in a very difficult circumstance.
Edwards: They rise to the occasion. They usually always supersede expectations. And I look at Dover Air Force Base, and if you were to give a scale, they always are outstanding and provide service above and beyond expectations.
Jones: I just have a few more questions. You are working very long days as this is going on, and so maybe you don’t have any interest in watching the news, but as this story was unfolding and you were actually participating in it, were you also paying attention to the news? Like, who are these folks, these remains that have come to Dover, who are they? What were they doing in Guyana? Were you paying attention to the news at the time or were you just too exhausted to do that at the time?
Edwards: No. On the norm, I would have to say most of us do watch the news. We watch the news so that there are things that unfold that are given to us because you are so intent on providing the service that when you do leave to go to your residence, the news is one area that I would have to say is settling to find some aspects of the results that you- providing because you’re saying, “okay, this is done.” You see it there.
Because while you are working inside of any type of situation, you’re not following yourself. You have to be removed from the environment and then view it. And the news was a way of being able to see the progress.
Jones: I’ve heard the same kind of thing from combat veterans who say, “when I was in the war, I really didn’t have any idea what I was doing other than what was happening around me immediately. But after the war, I would watch documentaries and see, oh, okay, that’s what I was part of.” It sounds like you’re saying it’s like that. You’re very busy doing your work, and then you go home and watch the news and it’s like, it sounds like you’re saying, “oh, okay, this is the big story that I’m part of.”
Edwards: To put it in perspective, I would say, you are in the storm. And then any type of tornado as it’s going around when you’re in the storm, you are just going around. Go home and you’re not in the storm; you’re then in the eye of the storm. You can sit down and you can say, “well, I see.” And then the eye is always a cause. Then you succumb to the turmoil you were in.
Jones: 25th, November 26th, November 27th, so we’re a week after Jonestown, and now you’re driving to the base. There must have been a lot of media gathering around the base?
Edwards: Yes. They would have literally, because they had to keep the distance; sometimes they had almost like trucks with poles on them.
Jones: So there was a lot of media?
Edwards: Yes.
Jones: Since that time. Have you had interest in Peoples Temple and Jonestown? I mean, did you ever find yourself wanting to learn more about what that was all about? Why were those people in Guyana? Or did you just carry on and just kind of let it go? What was your own kind of response to that over the longer term as the years went by?
Edwards: When you have seen the devastations that hope can bring upon individuals who are true followers, it just makes you more mindful that you have to pray for people to be able to not be so susceptible to following leaders that are destructive.
Jones: This is a lesson I’ve heard from many people, even survivors of Jonestown themselves. I guess it’s not surprising survivors of Jonestown themselves have said that. When you, for example, when you got the letter from me and I know you’ve been asked many times over the years to talk about your memories of Dover’s response to Jonestown and your own involvement in that—when you got the letter from me, or when you hear a reference to Jonestown, what’s the first thing that comes to your mind?
Edwards: To be honest with you again, it’s how Dover Air Force Base always excels and exceeds the expectations that are given to them in times of crisis. They are truly wonderful people. It would bring tears to my eyes and it would just melt my heart. So many of the small little things that took place during so many of the crises that came.
It’s people taking care of people. There are excellent teams, the reserves, the active duty, the appropriated funds, the civil service workers, the non-funded individuals, all of the contractors that are on the base, and the USO. I can go on and on about the chapel services, which were so phenomenally wonderful and the command section.
Jones: Here’s my last question, of course. As we’ve indicated, probably more than any other air base, I think, especially in a time of war, Dover is the base that most Americans are familiar with because they see the very powerful images of remains returning to the country, sometimes with the President there to receive them. A lot of events have happened, but does the response to Jonestown—is that still kind of the institutional memory of Dover? Is that just kind of something that lives on in the minds of people who work at Dover, that this is the place that receives, of course, our fallen service members from the Gulf, from Afghanistan, etc., but it’s also the place that received those folks from Jonestown? Is it still part of Dover’s sort of institutional memory?
Edwards: Yes, I would say this, because that’s the time the Dover Air Force Base rose to the occasion to take care of a civilian tragedy. Remember, all the others are military. But this is a civilian tragedy.
I would like to convey that it was a blessing for me to literally have been raised out there. And when I say raised, I mean I went to the base at 22 and left at almost 72 years of age.
Jones: I appreciate that. You’ve participated in a lot more history than most of us will ever get close to. That’s amazing. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us as well and to share these memories.
Edwards: The motto of Dover Air Force Base is to get it done.
Jones: I hear you. Well, Patricia Edwards, thank you very much for sharing your memories with us and for making your memories part of the historical record about the base itself and also the base’s response to the Jonestown Tragedy.
Edwards: And may I add, outside of “get it done,” they always say “service before self.” And everything that we do—service before self. Service before self. People would think that way. It goes a long way.
Jones: I like that. That’s kind of the will, right? It’s a mix of heart and will to get it done.
Edwards: It’s the mind and the heart.
Jones: I hear that. Well, thank you.
Edwards: You’re welcome. I hope I gave you enough.
Jones: The only thing we wanted to hear was just your own thoughts and your own memories, so thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Edwards: God bless you.